# Any thoughts on 427a for r22 replacement



## jmyhvac (May 16, 2012)

Looking for a refrigerant that does not contain propane that will also work well in residential a/c and heatpumps. Has anyone used this and do you have to change out the oil they claim no components need to be changed.

Mineral oil and alkylbenzene are often acceptable with R-427A if the system has an oil separator and reliable oil return with R-22. Otherwise the oil must be changed to POE. If POE is required, usually only one change-out of the existing lubricant is needed, as R-427A can tolerate high levels of residual mineral oil or alkylbenzene remaining in the system. :001_unsure:


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## Superdave1 (Mar 22, 2013)

We are having the best luck with Dupont Isceon 99 for this, very little loss of cooling capacity.


Dave
www.texascentralair.com


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## jmyhvac (May 16, 2012)

MO99 contains propane and I understand that manufactures will not warranty there product if we retrofit with this and if a leak accrues there is a probability of a fire what is your understanding on this?


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## Superdave1 (Mar 22, 2013)

We have not heard of any warranty rejections. 

Dupont M099 has same A1 flammable rating as many other HFC refrigerants, which means it takes work to make light up.


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## jmyhvac (May 16, 2012)

Thanks


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## beenthere (May 30, 2009)

jmyhvac said:


> MO99 contains propane and I understand that manufactures will not warranty there product if we retrofit with this and if a leak accrues there is a probability of a fire what is your understanding on this?


Trane has a bulliten out on MO99. they have approved it.


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## jmyhvac (May 16, 2012)

Thanks beenthere, I will check that out


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## BigEd (Apr 6, 2013)

I didn't see this thread until after I posted mine. One of my suppliers is pushing 427A hard. Has anyone compared MO99 to 427A. I'm trying to make a decision on which one my company will go with.


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## BigEd (Apr 6, 2013)

I've been looking at the data sheets for 427A and MO99. The compressor has to be cut and oil dumped and replaced for 427A. MO99 on the other hand is compatible with R22 oils.


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## MrFixit (Apr 24, 2017)

SO a little time has passed since this thread was active and I'm wondering what may have been changed/learned in the last few years.

I too am looking for a R22 alternative and have boiled it down to R427A or R422B (NU22) and just found this thread.

According to the folks at Johnstone supply, the rep for 427A came and had a class with them about the refrigerant and it resulted in them deciding it was the best alternative.

I think the main question/drawback I'm seeing here is oil changeout.

According to the folks at Johnstone as well as the link below to a "Contracting Business .com" article and a few other sources I've seen, there is not usually a need to change the oil or seals.

Johnstones guys say their rep informed them that if the system has no POE oil, all that is needed is to blow out/remove a little of the oil so that some POE can be added which will allow the oil return to the compressor as needed.

They suggest 30% as a general rule, but assured me that in most cases it does not require a cleaned system with no oil traces, a removal of the old oil or even most of the old oil, just a simple inclusion of POE to the mix.


http://contractingbusiness.com/refrigeration/arkemas-forane-427a-minimizes-retrofit-labor

So my question is, in the time since this thread was active, has anyone compared the two? R427A and R422B? 

Any updated results on either? I have seen a lot of people using the 422 and I know it is in a lot of units now, but I haven't seen much feedback from the field on the 427.

It SOUNDS like the 427 may be a better option, so I'm hoping some folks here hacve some experience with it now.

By the way, isn't it crazy how you can find a source to get R22 at $630 a drum and think "Wow! That's a good price".......?


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## PhilRussell (Jan 25, 2018)

beenthere said:


> Trane has a bulliten out on MO99. they have approved it.


beenthere, can you provide Trane bulletin on MO99?


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## xtrmref64 (Mar 31, 2018)

jmyhvac said:


> Looking for a refrigerant that does not contain propane that will also work well in residential a/c and heatpumps. Has anyone used this and do you have to change out the oil they claim no components need to be changed.
> 
> Mineral oil and alkylbenzene are often acceptable with R-427A if the system has an oil separator and reliable oil return with R-22. Otherwise the oil must be changed to POE. If POE is required, usually only one change-out of the existing lubricant is needed, as R-427A can tolerate high levels of residual mineral oil or alkylbenzene remaining in the system. :001_unsure:


Love it. Any oil compatible. Mimics R22 the best in my opinion 

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## xtrmref64 (Mar 31, 2018)

jmyhvac said:


> MO99 contains propane and I understand that manufactures will not warranty there product if we retrofit with this and if a leak accrues there is a probability of a fire what is your understanding on this?


Love R427a. Any oil compatible. Mimics R22 the best in my opinion MO99 isn't a favorite of mine 

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## xtrmref64 (Mar 31, 2018)

BigEd said:


> I've been looking at the data sheets for 427A and MO99. The compressor has to be cut and oil dumped and replaced for 427A. MO99 on the other hand is compatible with R22 oils.


No sir that isn't true. 

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## thekux (Jul 29, 2018)

Cdgrr

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## faithheatingcooling (Aug 16, 2018)

99 is the way to go although the 427a has not given us any problems when we need it in a bind. But we are sticking with 99 thats for sure.


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## faithheatingcooling (Aug 16, 2018)

Haven’t had any issues with 427a seems to work just fine.


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## droopylee95 (Feb 26, 2018)

The one place we've used it it's worked fine but we mainly use 99. But the wholesale house across street from customer carried it so made since to try. Units been running for year now fine. Knock on wood

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