# Inside coils & More



## linebacker (Jun 18, 2009)

I appreciate so much the experts that have responded to my previous thread, but there is more much more. Please hear me out. We have over the last 5 years replaced many systems that we had installed 20 years ago. The systems still had a full charge of freon. We installed the same brand equipment and ran new copper and evacuted the system properly. Within 1 year the inside had freon leaks. The leaks were from the outside in. Listen to me! Same house, same people, new coil with leaks.
We also have had new coils still in the box, that haven't been installed. They had no pressure on them. We pressured them. They had leaks, champagne type leaks.
There are two manufactures that made changes to their process on the line at the factory. I talking about how they put the coils together. The coil problem went away. I'm not talking about new material or coatings. 
I agree there are problems in our homes that play a part, but listen to me, That isn't all the problem. There is much, much more.
Please, just listen to me. Don't let anyone continue to blame installers and home owners.
Have a blessed day!


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## Yuri (May 28, 2009)

I wonder why we or at least I don't seem to have that problem in Canada. At least not in Manitoba. I see a lot of Lennox units and so far no problem with their coils. Don't seem to have that problem with the Goodmans/Rheems/Carriers I see. Radon gas is a problem in parts of the US. I will ask our western Canada tech support guy about this next time I see him. Personally I believe every new home should have a basic HRV. All our new homes have a centralized bathroom exhaust system and cold air replenishment pipe, must help a lot.


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## linebacker (Jun 18, 2009)

Yuri said:


> I wonder why we or at least I don't seem to have that problem in Canada. At least not in Manitoba. I see a lot of Lennox units and so far no problem with their coils. Don't seem to have that problem with the Goodmans/Rheems/Carriers I see. Radon gas is a problem in parts of the US. I will ask our western Canada tech support guy about this next time I see him. Personally I believe every new home should have a basic HRV. All our new homes have a centralized bathroom exhaust system and cold air replenishment pipe, must help a lot.


 Yuri,
I'm told that humid areas have had the most problems.


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## Yuri (May 28, 2009)

That is probably VERY true. Another poster I was reading talked about that formicary corrosion in sheet metal screws causing the furnace cabinets and circuit board mounting to come loose. This causes flame failure problems as the board needs to be perfectly grounded for flame rectification purposes. We rarely get over 60% humidity here, may be cold as h*ll but not humid. LOL:laughing:

Is it possible that there is a galvanic reaction between the copper and the tube sheet causing the problem?


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## milk man (Aug 5, 2009)

linebacker said:


> I appreciate so much the experts that have responded to my previous thread, but there is more much more. Please hear me out. We have over the last 5 years replaced many systems that we had installed 20 years ago. The systems still had a full charge of freon. We installed the same brand equipment and ran new copper and evacuted the system properly. Within 1 year the inside had freon leaks. The leaks were from the outside in. Listen to me! Same house, same people, new coil with leaks.
> We also have had new coils still in the box, that haven't been installed. They had no pressure on them. We pressured them. They had leaks, champagne type leaks.
> There are two manufactures that made changes to their process on the line at the factory. I talking about how they put the coils together. The coil problem went away. I'm not talking about new material or coatings.
> I agree there are problems in our homes that play a part, but listen to me, That isn't all the problem. There is much, much more.
> ...


I hear you.

I've repaired old coils with formicary leaks. I think it's the thinner copper used.


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## linebacker (Jun 18, 2009)

milk man said:


> I hear you.
> 
> I've repaired old coils with formicary leaks. I think it's the thinner copper used.


Milkman,
I had 3 factory reps. in my office for 3 hours explaining the problem. I asked them if the coils were made different than they were 15 years ago. One of them spoke up and said there was no difference in the coils. I knew better. I had coils that were 15 years old and offered for him to look at them and tell me they were the same. He got mad and left the meeting and sat in his car while the other two reps. talked to me. Even folks on this site that disagree with me, say the coils are made different. My problem is that the factories refuse to agree that they are part of the problem. I keep saying that there are two factories that made a slight change in the process of making the coils and the problem was solved. Listen to me. I said process not marterial.


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## Yuri (May 28, 2009)

What was the process that changed, I /we would like to know.


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## linebacker (Jun 18, 2009)

Yuri said:


> What was the process that changed, I /we would like to know.


 If you really want to know, just do a little research and see what companies didn't make a major material change and ask them. They may not tell you what they did, but will say they made a change. I don't mean to be allusive, but I sure that there will be litigation at some point. It doesn't seem to be a problem in your area and I hope it doesn't become one.


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## protech (Mar 23, 2009)

Galvanic corrosion will only damage the steel or aluminum touching the copper, not the copper it self. Copper has a higher electro negativity than the other metals therefore it wins and they lose.



Yuri said:


> That is probably VERY true. Another poster I was reading talked about that formicary corrosion in sheet metal screws causing the furnace cabinets and circuit board mounting to come loose. This causes flame failure problems as the board needs to be perfectly grounded for flame rectification purposes. We rarely get over 60% humidity here, may be cold as h*ll but not humid. LOL:laughing:
> 
> Is it possible that there is a galvanic reaction between the copper and the tube sheet causing the problem?


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## jvegas (Jun 17, 2009)

I'ts the humidity that always gets you :laughing:


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## RoBoTeq (Jun 18, 2009)

linebacker said:


> If you really want to know, just do a little research and see what companies didn't make a major material change and ask them. They may not tell you what they did, but will say they made a change. I don't mean to be allusive, but I sure that there will be litigation at some point. It doesn't seem to be a problem in your area and I hope it doesn't become one.


What's with all of the vague innuendo's? If you know something, just say it.

Copper tubing is thinner and rifled in order to get better heat transfer required for higher efficiencies. Houses are tighter sealed and now contain more VOCs that adversely attack coils. Where is the conspiracy that is causing all of your drama? Coils are more susceptible to the affects of corrosion at the same time that more corrosive chemicals are being introduced to these coils. This is not brain surgery here.

Since we cannot effectively increase the durability of the copper tubing without decreasing the efficiency rating of them, we need to be concentrating on removing the products that are causing the damage.

Continuing to cry about what you think is going on while denying what is really going on is not going to make it so. Why did you even bother bringing this up if you are going to contiue to refuse to listen to reason as to what is going on?


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## linebacker (Jun 18, 2009)

RoBoTeq,
Glad you are back! Have a blessed day.
linebacker


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## RoBoTeq (Jun 18, 2009)

Thank you linebacker. I really am trying to keep us focused on fixing issues rather then just laying blame. I realize that this is as important to you as it is to all of us in the industry.


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