# Carrier vs. Trane



## HVACWalter

I'm curious what everyone is installing more of these days and why. Carrier, Trane, Bryant, York, etc...

When we were doing more new construction we installed a lot of Carrier but lately we've been installing more Tranes.


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## gene2

We use Carrier because the basic foundation of this technology was developed by Carrier, as represented in properly accredited training materials. Carrier can be arrogant & obnoxious at times. Bryant, Trane, York, Lennox are very good also, most other off brands are just copy cats & have little investment in research & devlopement and the cheaper price reflects that. Proper installation & application are the most critical no matter what brand is used. In addition to little or no research expense, cheaper brands many times use thinner copper, steel & aluminum in manufacturing. We try to avoid the cheaper units for our long term clients as the thinner materials result in shorter useful life of equipment. I hate telling a client they need a replacement after a few years because whatever is rotted out.


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## Yuri

We sell mostly high end Lennox units to a well established long term clientele who want quiet well built units and are willing to pay for the top of the line type units. Also sell some Armstrong and AireFlo for the low end market. Not real happy with Carrier and their lack of tech support etc and what appears to be a dumbing down of some of their product to compete with the low end stuff. Used to be right up there with Lennox from my viewpoint.


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## beenthere

Most companies sell more of what ever their main line is.
Weather it be Carrier, Lennox, Rheem, Trane or York. Just to name a few.


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## hvaclover

gene2 said:


> We use Carrier because the basic foundation of this technology was developed by Carrier, as represented in properly accredited training materials. Carrier can be arrogant & obnoxious at times. Bryant, Trane, York, Lennox are very good also, _*most other off brands are just copy cats & have little investment in research & devlopement and the cheaper price reflects that. Proper installation & application are the most critical no*_ matter what brand is used. In addition to little or no research expense, cheaper brands many times use thinner copper, steel & aluminum in manufacturing. We try to avoid the cheaper units for our long term clients as the thinner materials result in shorter useful life of equipment. I hate telling a client they need a replacement after a few years because whatever is rotted out.



Now i don't consider Nordyne equipment an off brand and they are heavy into R%D. The were the ones to introduce the first 23 SEER ac and Heat Pump. 
They have a great tech service dept.

I'll take a Westinghouse over any furnace or ac.


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## hvactech

We sell Goodman, because it is the best value and best warranty and very reliable when installed and maintained properly. I have installed and serviced many of the big brands, but I prefer the Goodman.


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## hvaclover

hvactech said:


> We sell Goodman, because it is the best value and best warranty and very reliable when installed and maintained properly. I have installed and serviced many of the big brands, but I prefer the Goodman.



Nordyne started the ten year warranty. And the ten year Quality Pledge.

I know Goodman has a Life Time warranty but the customers who I have talked to would rather buy anew unit after ten years because they would rather have the new technology that would be available at the time of failure.

Now correct me if i am wrong, but the life time compressor warranty only applies to the original home owner doe it not?


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## hvactech

hvaclover said:


> Nordyne started the ten year warranty. And the ten year Quality Pledge.
> 
> I know Goodman has a Life Time warranty but the customers who I have talked to would rather buy anew unit after ten years because they would rather have the new technology that would be available at the time of failure.
> 
> Now correct me if i am wrong, but the life time compressor warranty only applies to the original home owner doe it not?


Yes that is true! its actually a 99 year warranty but the homeowner has to register with the Mfg. within 90 days from date of purchase. Also, did you know that Goodman purchased Amana a few years ago? And Goodman is the 2 nd most sold in the States?


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## hvaclover

Know all about it. Was slingin' Junkatrol when Goodman first bought the name.

But Goodman is no longer number two. Their market share has shrunk, mainly thanks to Nordyne .

Goodman was at one time a trend setter in warranties now Nordyne leads the way.

Goodmand is still the same -o same-o design.

Nordyne has improved and changed it product line up every year.

They are big and getting bigger all the time.


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## beenthere

Because they sell under more brand names.


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## hvaclover

Volume is volume Been, can't argue with the growth they have. Companies are birthed, grow and die. Nordyne's time in the sun is just starting.


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## beenthere

Their growing using the same tatics as Goodman did.

low price units.

They do have the inverter centraal system. But I don't think its moving as good as they had hoped for though.


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## hvaclover

Price ain't that low and they ain't got the overhead other companies do.


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## beenthere

Gibson is real low price.
Its what I use to use in RNC.


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## hvaclover

And its a nice quiet unit with aluminum channeled condenser.

:001_tongue:


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## beenthere

Its a cheap unit.

Or I would have used Goodman instead. But Goodman couldn't match the price. Let alone beat it.


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Its a cheap unit.
> 
> Or I would have used Goodman instead. But Goodman couldn't match the price. Let alone beat it.



It's not poorly made and the new line is sturdy and quiet as hell.


Do I get the last word yet:001_tongue::001_tongue:?


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## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> and quit as hell.


quit ???:001_tongue:


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## MORK

*So which?*

What do you all like in 2.5T R-22 based unit for quality, reliability and support? I'm just getting the business started here in New England (where we are running 10 - 15 degrees below normal, sheesh).


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## uaplumber

We are a Trane dealer. I feel like it is a brand I can tie my name into. We give a 10 years parts and labour warranty with every unit sold.


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## hvaclover

:001_tongue:We ignore new guys 'til you get 5000 posts


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## hvaclover

MORK said:


> What do you all like in 2.5T R-22 based unit for quality, reliability and support? I'm just getting the business started here in New England (where we are running 10 - 15 degrees below normal, sheesh).



You pose an interesting question.. all the contractors on all the sites we post on stress the quality of the installation over brand.

What line are you carrying right now?


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## hvaclover

uaplumber said:


> We are a Trane dealer. I feel like it is a brand I can tie my name into. We give a 10 years parts and labour warranty with every unit sold.



Which model do you sell most of?


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## uaplumber

XV 95 selling the most.
As of Dec. 31 this year we are no longer permitted to import any furnace below 90%.


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## RoBoTeq

hvactech said:


> We sell Goodman, because it is the best value and best warranty and very reliable when installed and maintained properly. I have installed and serviced many of the big brands, but I prefer the Goodman.


Good to see the 400 pound gorilla in the room speaking up:yes:

What so many contractors want to be known for, brand wise, and what they make most of their best money off of are two very different things.

It cracks me up when companies that consider themselves Carrier, Trane, Lennos etc companies, install more Goodman product then the brand they want to be identified with.

Goodman is going for 25% of the market share. Just how much market does Goodman need to have before they are considered one of the main brands?:laughing:


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Nordyne started the ten year warranty. And the ten year Quality Pledge.
> 
> I know Goodman has a Life Time warranty but the customers who I have talked to would rather buy anew unit after ten years because they would rather have the new technology that would be available at the time of failure.
> 
> Now correct me if i am wrong, but the life time compressor warranty only applies to the original home owner doe it not?


Wrong. Goodman started the 5 year across the board warranty when all others had 1 year parts and 5 year compressor warranties, and then when everyone else went to 5 years, Goodman started with 10 year warranties. Goodman has always led in warranties.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Know all about it. Was slingin' Junkatrol when Goodman first bought the name.
> 
> But Goodman is no longer number two. Their market share has shrunk, mainly thanks to Nordyne .
> 
> Goodman was at one time a trend setter in warranties now Nordyne leads the way.
> 
> Goodmand is still the same -o same-o design.
> 
> Nordyne has improved and changed it product line up every year.
> 
> They are big and getting bigger all the time.


Jeeez whiz mr. long-in-the-tooth, wrong again:no:

Goodman still holds the number two position for the most sold residential units in North America and is actually number one for single branded sales.

Just what are those Nordyner's telling you guys? Nordyne isn't even a regular type of manufacturer, but rather a generic manufacturer dressing up in the labels of well known but now defunct brand names. Not that it's not good stuff, but it is just like everything else that has faults out there in the HVAC world.

And Goodman is no where near the same as it was. In the ten years I worked for Goodman, they changed dramatically, twice. Goodman utilized the superior Amana quality and innovations to enhance the Goodman branded equipment and used Goodman's immensely successful marketing stratgies to put Amana back in the spotlight.

My old boss from Goodman Distribution Inc. now peddles Nordyne under one of their many brand names, and it's not bad stuff. I installed one for him in his house last year. Nothing great, but as good as anything else out there with the same features and benefits.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Price ain't that low and they ain't got the overhead other companies do.


How so on the overhead? What is different?

If Nordyne's prices are not low and they don't have as much overhead, are they just taking advantage of the contractors who are so loyal to them?


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## RoBoTeq

MORK said:


> What do you all like in 2.5T R-22 based unit for quality, reliability and support? I'm just getting the business started here in New England (where we are running 10 - 15 degrees below normal, sheesh).


You need to think about the future, not the past. R22 is the past.


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## beenthere

I feel left out.

You didn't quote me Robo. :laughing:


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Good to see the 400 pound gorilla in the room speaking up:yes:
> 
> What so many contractors want to be known for, brand wise, and what they make most of their best money off of are two very different things.
> 
> It cracks me up when companies that consider themselves Carrier, Trane, Lennos etc companies, install more Goodman product then the brand they want to be identified with.
> 
> Goodman is going for 25% of the market share. Just how much market does Goodman need to have before they are considered one of the main brands?:laughing:


 Ah C'mon Robo! Leave that one behind please!!!!


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> How so on the overhead? What is different?
> 
> If Nordyne's prices are not low and they don't have as much overhead, are they just taking advantage of the contractors who are so loyal to them?


(I feel an ass kicking coming my way)

Nordyen sells for less than Goodman here in Mi.. I am a dealer for both Nordyen and Goodman.


Please don't kill me!!!!


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Jeeez whiz mr. long-in-the-tooth, wrong again:no:
> 
> Goodman still holds the number two position for the most sold residential units in North America and is actually number one for single branded sales.
> 
> Just what are those Nordyner's telling you guys? Nordyne isn't even a regular type of manufacturer, but rather a generic manufacturer dressing up in the labels of well known but now defunct brand names. Not that it's not good stuff, but it is just like everything else that has faults out there in the HVAC world.
> 
> And Goodman is no where near the same as it was. In the ten years I worked for Goodman, they changed dramatically, twice. Goodman utilized the superior Amana quality and innovations to enhance the Goodman branded equipment and used Goodman's immensely successful marketing stratgies to put Amana back in the spotlight.
> 
> My old boss from Goodman Distribution Inc. now peddles Nordyne under one of their many brand names, and it's not bad stuff. I installed one for him in his house last year. Nothing great, but as good as anything else out there with the same features and benefits.



I just think the Goodman although a good unit still does not top Nordyne.

I sell em both. Just seems the Nordyne line is a lot more flexible to install.

And I am Long in the tooth. Been feeling my years more so of late.

I am sure that Nordyne came out with the ten year warranty first. if I am wrong then so be it.

You seen Nordyne's growth lately? I said Goodman had fallen behind because I read it in an article in one of the industry papers or from a Periodical from SWAC dist.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Ah C'mon Robo! Leave that one behind please!!!!


You started it with your absurd commentaries about Nordyne:yes:


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> (I feel an ass kicking coming my way)
> 
> Nordyen sells for less than Goodman here in Mi.. I am a dealer for both Nordyen and Goodman.
> 
> 
> Please don't kill me!!!!


This contradicts what you posted earlier about Nordyne not being inexpensive.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> I just think the Goodman although a good unit still does not top Nordyne.
> 
> I sell em both. Just seems the Nordyne line is a lot more flexible to install.
> 
> And I am Long in the tooth. Been feeling my years more so of late.
> 
> I am sure that Nordyne came out with the ten year warranty first. if I am wrong then so be it.
> 
> You seen Nordyne's growth lately? I said Goodman had fallen behind because I read it in an article in one of the industry papers or from a Periodical from SWAC dist.


As long as the features and benefits are the same, I won't say that any brand is any better then any other brand other then for personal preferences by individual installers and technicians.

Goodman is not falling behind. Goodman is the only manufacturer that had an increase in production in 2008. That article must have been in the Nordyne Times:whistling2:


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> How so on the overhead? What is different?
> 
> If Nordyne's prices are not low and they don't have as much overhead, are they just taking advantage of the contractors who are so loyal to them?


Less laborers more automation. They make a furnace for less then Goodman can.

Business NEWS 2008. Also HVAC NEWS same year ran an article on the growth of Nordyne.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> How so on the overhead? What is different?
> 
> _*If Nordyne's prices are not low and t*_hey don't have as much overhead, are they just taking advantage of the contractors who are so loyal to them?


I was referring to their premium lines of Frigidaire and Westinghouse. Those lines are more expensive because they have all the dealer benefits with co op and trip points...you know the drill.

The Premium 95%2 stg VS motor is up there around $1300. Amana is only a grand for the same furnace.

But all the other Goodman prices I have are the same or very close to the Nordyne premium units.

Gibson sells for a lot less than Goodman. No frills. Just a good unit .


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Less laborers more automation. They make a furnace for less then Goodman can.
> 
> Business NEWS 2008. Also HVAC NEWS same year ran an article on the growth of Nordyne.


Nordyne may have had a larger percentile company growth, but not taking over in the market share.

For example, if Nordyne made 1 unit in 2007 and 3 units in 2008 and Goodman made 1 million units in 2007 and 2 million units in 2008, then Nordyne did beat Goodman in it's percentage of growth.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Less laborers more automation. They make a furnace for less then Goodman can.
> 
> Business NEWS 2008. Also HVAC NEWS same year ran an article on the growth of Nordyne.


So, Goodman is also better for our overall economy by employing more American workers.....sing along;_ God, bless America.....:thumbsup:_

But wait; That's not all! You also stated that Nordyne costs more then Goodman. So, basically, Nordyne is bending you over and you could make more money by installing Goodman:yes:


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> I was referring to their premium lines of Frigidaire and Westinghouse. Those lines are more expensive because they have all the dealer benefits with co op and trip points...you know the drill.
> 
> The Premium 95%2 stg VS motor is up there around $1300. Amana is only a grand for the same furnace.
> 
> But all the other Goodman prices I have are the same or very close to the Nordyne premium units.
> 
> Gibson sells for a lot less than Goodman. No frills. Just a good unit .


Ah sol....the prot fickens:001_tongue:


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## hvaclover

I have a periodical I am sure you find interesting.

Swac distb mails a news letter that states "Carrier#1
Lennox #2
and number three (you ready for this?) HAIER#3. 

No mention of York/Johnson ctrls or Goodman.


Pick who you want by what ever convoluted numbers you want to use.

I know Nordyne is gaining on Goodman. I am going by sources I trust. Does not matter if they use old very recognizable names Baby Boomers know.

If we use your argument of "using defunct names" to make sales as not valid then you have to apply that argument to Goodman when they bought the name Janitrol. Need i remind you of GMC and Goodman and several other private labels that Goodman used from it's inception. 

You disagree and say Goodman is number two, what source are you quoting?


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> I have a periodical I am sure you find interesting.
> 
> Swac distb mails a news letter that states "Carrier#1
> Lennox #2
> and number three (you ready for this?) HAIER#3.
> 
> No mention of York/Johnson ctrls or Goodman.
> 
> 
> Pick who you want by what ever convoluted numbers you want to use.
> 
> I know Nordyne is gaining on Goodman. I am going by sources I trust. Does not matter if they use old very recognizable names Baby Boomers know.
> 
> If we use your argument of "using defunct names" to make sales as not valid then you have to apply that argument to Goodman when they bought the name Janitrol. Need i remind you of GMC and Goodman and several other private labels that Goodman used from it's inception.
> 
> You disagree and say Goodman is number two, what source are you quoting?


From Monster.com; http://company.monster.com/gmc/


> *Is it successful?* Goodman's share of the market has grown faster than any other major manufacturer. Our Quality and Value speak for themselves.


This is all I can find on the Internet about the market share of any HVAC manufacturer. I must assume it was at a Goodman meeting that I saw the pie chart showing Goodman as second in the industry with the closest third pretty well behind. Keep in mind that this is for residential market only.


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