# Factory installed LL dryer



## DuMass

Why do some manufactures insist on factory installing a LL dryer inside their condenser units? 
Is this an attempt to make installation easier for DIY or are they truly concerned that a competent installer would somehow forget to actually use one. Seems silly to me.
Would you ever really consider not using a LL dryer on one of your installs?


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## nicktech

i guess it could justify a higher cost, or it ensures that any schmuck putting it in incorporates a LLD


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## milk man

Because the installers where not installing them.


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## evapman

Have ran into a few with 2, one factory installed in cabinet, 1 outside tech installed. double the fun I guess :blink:


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## milk man

Lennox's policy as told to us in a class was to install a second drier for all low side repairs where gas can be pumped back into the CU. (R410a).

Remove the factory drier and stub to space with high side repairs, or if system is flat. Add drier outside of cabinet. Again we are are talking about R-410a systems.


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## jvegas

I have seen some installers that don't install a dryer not sure of the reason


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## JohnH1

You really should not need a dryer other than the factory installed one if the system is clean and dry. It is just another restriction in the curcuit.
I was once told even in a compressor burn out situation you may need to change the dryer out a couple of times but once the system is cleaned up and no more acid to remove the dryer. Although I would still leave the factory dryer in place.


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## milk man

All 410a machines need liquid line filter driers because evacuation will not boil out water from the POE oil.


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## jvegas

milk man said:


> All 410a machines need liquid line filter driers because evacuation will not boil out water from the POE oil.


 Thanks for the info but where does this come from manufacture or experence


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## hvaclover

JohnH1 said:


> You really should not need a dryer other than the factory installed one if the system is clean and dry. It is just another restriction in the curcuit.
> I was once told even in a compressor burn out situation you may need to change the dryer out a couple of times but once the system is cleaned up and no more acid to remove the dryer. Although I would still leave the factory dryer in place.


ICP, Nordyne and many more do not come with driers. To say they are just another restriction is ignorance. All driers are much larger than the pipe they being installed on..


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## milk man

jvegas said:


> Thanks for the info but where does this come from manufacture or experence


 
Manufacture.

One had a power point slide that showed little tiny animated bubbles. They could not break through the oil film on top of the oil.


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## beenthere

Probably 80% plus of all units installed wouldn't have a LLFD if the factory didn't install one.

By installing one themselves. They reduce compressor failures. From those companies/installers that would be too cheap and or lazy to install one themselves.


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## hvaclover

The only mfg who installs a LLD of significant size even worth mentioning

Armstrong. And maybe ICP. But the rest of them are tool small to make it worth while for my money.


I don't use equipment with the undersized LLD, but if we did we would put a 16cu in right at the evap as a routine matter.


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## mechanicalDvr

JohnH1 said:


> You really should not need a dryer other than the factory installed one if the system is clean and dry. It is just another restriction in the curcuit.
> I was once told even in a compressor burn out situation you may need to change the dryer out a couple of times but once the system is cleaned up and no more acid to remove the dryer. Although I would still leave the factory dryer in place.


I would never leave any drier in place that was in the system prior to a burnout, that's just asking for problems.


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## mechanicalDvr

jvegas said:


> Thanks for the info but where does this come from manufacture or experence


All the literature on 410A systems. Pulling a vacuum will not remove all moisture from POE oil, ever.


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## mechanicalDvr

hvaclover said:


> The only mfg who installs a LLD of significant size even worth mentioning
> 
> Armstrong. And maybe ICP. But the rest of them are tool small to make it worth while for my money.
> 
> 
> I don't use equipment with the undersized LLD, but if we did we would put a 16cu in right at the evap as a routine matter.


Are you talking just residential condensing units or RTUs as well? I see plenty of Trane and other RTUs with full size filter driers all the time.


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## DuMass

beenthere said:


> Probably 80% plus of all units installed wouldn't have a LLFD if the factory didn't install one.
> 
> By installing one themselves. They reduce compressor failures. From those companies/installers that would be too cheap and or lazy to install one themselves.


I find this alarming. It’s disturbing to know that there are so many hack installers out there with no skills or conscience.


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## beenthere

DuMass said:


> I find this alarming. It’s disturbing to know that there are so many hack installers out there with no skills or conscience.


Lots of companies cut corners where ever they can. To make up for their low bids.

Lots of companies don't provide service agreements. And then get to make more money coming out to make repairs a few years later that they get to charge for. Because the unit held up long enough to make it through the labor warranty.

Compressor manufacturers are demanding that the FDs be installed at the factory in order to get the longer warranty.
Because they have seen the failures from poor install practices.

Many low priced companies, can't afford to send their techs to training classes. So those techs don't learn proper practices.
And end up walking around saying" I never heard of that".


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## RoBoTeq

When I was a Regional Technical Service Manager for Gooman Manufacturing I constantly fought the internally installed filter/drier, to no avail. When Goodman started putting the filter/drier in the Amana brand units as well, I knew it was a lost cause to keep them out. Turns out that in order to get a better warranty from Copeland, Copeland required the units to have an internal F/D installed.

When you think about the massive amounts of units that are installed by piece workers in track homes and multi-family buildings it becomes easier to understand that most filter/driers provided with units never get installed.

I am with Lennox on their proceedure for filter/driers when work is done on sytems that requires opening up the refrigerant system. Other then poor installation practices, the most contaminants that get into systems get there from gauge hoses not being purged properly.


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## JohnH1

mechanicalDvr said:


> I would never leave any drier in place that was in the system prior to a burnout, that's just asking for problems.


Agreed. I ment after the system was cleaned up I would install a new factory dryer and leave in place and the burn out dryers would be removed.


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## service

i was surprised to see units with no liquid driers, and asked about it, and was told by the tech at that company that ' one is in the unit" and i said " well, yeah, but you are still supposed to put a drier in, man, in fact you are kinda supposed to come and replace it after a lil bit too on retrofits and change outs"


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## hvaclover

service said:


> i was surprised to see units with no liquid driers, and asked about it, and was told by the tech at that company that ' one is in the unit" and i said " well, yeah, but you are still supposed to put a drier in, man, in fact you are kinda supposed to come and replace it after a lil bit too on retrofits and change outs"


Customers don't want to pay for a burn out driver removal.


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## beenthere

service said:


> i was surprised to see units with no liquid driers, and asked about it, and was told by the tech at that company that ' one is in the unit" and i said " well, yeah, but you are still supposed to put a drier in, man, in fact you are kinda supposed to come and replace it after a lil bit too on retrofits and change outs"



Your not suppose to have 2 LLFDs in series on a system.

On a swap out. If you suspect that the line set is dirty/contaminated. Install a suction line filter. And then remove it in a week(or replace line set when you do the swap out).


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Your not suppose to have 2 LLFDs in series on a system.
> 
> On a swap out. If you suspect that the line set is dirty/contaminated. Install a suction line filter. And then remove it in a week(or replace line set when you do the swap out).



I have always put a LLD at the evap when we used equip shipped with own drier in the condenser.

Just double insurance.


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## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> I have always put a LLD at the evap when we used equip shipped with own drier in the condenser.
> 
> Just double insurance.


Years later. When another company works on it.
The tech usually only changes the inside FD, and leaves the old one in the outdoor unit.

And thats the one that ends up being the cause of the liquid line temp being 10° cooler then the outdoor ambient.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> I have always put a LLD at the evap when we used equip shipped with own drier in the condenser.
> 
> Just double insurance.


Double restriction. Not a good idea.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Double restriction. Not a good idea.



Properly sized LLD not a prob. Factory said so.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Properly sized LLD not a prob. Factory said so.


What factory? I'd need to see that in writing. I've repped for several different brands for the manufacturer, and having more then one liquid line filter drier in the liquid line would be a reason to void the warranty.

Someone, from somewhere may have told you it was ok, but you won't get anyone from the manufacturer to put it in writing. If it isn't in writing, it don't exist.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> What factory? I'd need to see that in writing. I've repped for several different brands for the manufacturer, and having more then one liquid line filter drier in the liquid line would be a reason to void the warranty.
> 
> Someone, from somewhere may have told you it was ok, but you won't get anyone from the manufacturer to put it in writing. If it isn't in writing, it don't exist.


My Goodman rep.:001_tongue: he gave it to me on a company letterhead years ago. It was a bulletin.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> My Goodman rep.:001_tongue: he gave it to me on a company letterhead years ago. It was a bulletin.


Well, I have a comprehensive list of all Goodman bulletins going back to the mid 1980's, and I can't find anything making that claim. I have also turned down labor claims on repairs to systems that have multiple filter/driers for Goodman products and have never been questioned by anyone at Goodman Manufacturing. 

One of the main concerns at Goodman Manufacturing Technical Service Manager meetings was how to keep contractors from installing a second filter/drier in the liquid line.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Well, I have a comprehensive list of all Goodman bulletins going back to the mid 1980's, and I can't find anything making that claim. I have also turned down labor claims on repairs to systems that have multiple filter/driers for Goodman products and have never been questioned by anyone at Goodman Manufacturing.
> 
> One of the main concerns at Goodman Manufacturing Technical Service Manager meetings was how to keep contractors from installing a second filter/drier in the liquid line.



Well you know how The Old Guard was over at Goodman before and after the sale of the company: The Right Hand Did Not Know What The left Hand Was Doing.

A Goodman engineer with a British accent told me that when he was touring the local Goodman (Than they were Flo CO) wholesalers.

He had a funny way to pronounce Capillary tube. *Ca*-pilla-*ry* it sounded like.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Well you know how The Old Guard was over at Goodman before and after the sale of the company: The Right Hand Did Not Know What The left Hand Was Doing.
> 
> A Goodman engineer with a British accent told me that when he was touring the local Goodman (Than they were Flo CO) wholesalers.
> 
> He had a funny way to pronounce Capillary tube. *Ca*-pilla-*ry* it sounded like.


If you are referring to Goodman's chief engineer for the furnace division, the only engineer at Goodman that I know of with an English accent (along with a Texas drawl), he would not have suggested multiple filter/driers. 

I was with Goodman during the changing of the guards, through two major changes. I can't imagine anyone in authority at Goodman who would put in writing that it is ok to install an additional liquid line filter/drier. Not to mention that it is not accepted anywhere else in our industry.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> If you are referring to Goodman's chief engineer for the furnace division, the only engineer at Goodman that I know of with an English accent (along with a Texas drawl), he would not have suggested multiple filter/driers.
> 
> I was with Goodman during the changing of the guards, through two major changes. I can't imagine anyone in authority at Goodman who would put in writing that it is ok to install an additional liquid line filter/drier. Not to mention that it is not accepted anywhere else in our industry.


 
Just tellin 'ya what he told me when we were at lunch. And he forwarded a bulletin to me a few days later.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Just tellin 'ya what he told me when we were at lunch. And he forwarded a bulletin to me a few days later.


Let me guess; you no longer have the bulletin, remember the guys name or have anything whatsoever to help us out here:tt2:


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Let me guess; you no longer have the bulletin, remember the guys name or have anything whatsoever to help us out here:tt2:


The English guy.

Who keeps old bulletins any way?

Naw you're right. I have no bulletin. I just wanted to get a little vinegar outta you.

How you feeling any way Robin.? Keeping fit and calm I hope?


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> The English guy.
> 
> Who keeps old bulletins any way?
> 
> Naw you're right. I have no bulletin. I just wanted to get a little vinegar outta you.
> 
> How you feeling any way Robin.? Keeping fit and calm I hope?


Oh yea, I'm the vision of health...for being 60 pounds overweight with heart disease and 13 stents:whistling2:

I am eating less harmful stuff, and I just started exercising more. Who knows, I might make it long enough to aggrivate a few more people in life.


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## beenthere

RoBoTeq said:


> Oh yea, I'm the vision of health...for being 60 pounds overweight with heart disease and 13 stents:whistling2:
> 
> I am eating less harmful stuff, and I just started exercising more. Who knows, I might make it long enough to aggrivate a few more people in life.


Hopefully more then a few. Since somedays it doesn't take long for you to aggravate 3 or 4 people. :laughing: ROFL


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Oh yea, I'm the vision of health...for being 60 pounds overweight with heart disease and 13 stents:whistling2:
> 
> I am eating less harmful stuff, and I just started exercising more. Who knows, I might make it long enough to aggrivate a few more people in life.


I don't get. i weigh 338 and had a heart cath, all my arteries are clear, I just look like hell.:laughing::thumbsup:


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## carmon

The drier shgould not be inside the condensing unit. I gueess there are to many problems with people not installing them,I sure wish they would just send it with the unit and let us install it ,oh wel lwishfull thinking.


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## RoBoTeq

carmon said:


> The drier shgould not be inside the condensing unit. I gueess there are to many problems with people not installing them,I sure wish they would just send it with the unit and let us install it ,oh wel lwishfull thinking.


I'm with you on this one. Unfortunately, too many installs were being made without filter/driers installed and compressors were failing prematurely.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> I'm with you on this one. Unfortunately, too many installs were being made without filter/driers installed and compressors were failing prematurely.


Heil started shipping driers about five years ago in all it's units above it entry level model.

All the 410A units are sue as shootin' coming with driers now.


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## beenthere

carmon said:


> The drier shgould not be inside the condensing unit. I gueess there are to many problems with people not installing them,I sure wish they would just send it with the unit and let us install it ,oh wel lwishfull thinking.



If they just sent a drier with for the techs to install. Too many driers would end up sitting as stock on the service trucks.


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## RoBoTeq

beenthere said:


> If they just sent a drier with for the techs to install. Too many driers would end up sitting as stock on the service trucks.


Or worse, tossed in the trash pile because they already have too many of them. This is what happened that caused the compressor manufacturer's to require equipment manufacturer's have filter/driers installed in the outdoor units in order to get the measly 20 month warranty that compressor manufacturer's give for compressors.


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## beenthere

Not bad, for a product, they have little to no control over how its used.


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## John Markl

beenthere said:


> If they just sent a drier with for the techs to install. Too many driers would end up sitting as stock on the service trucks.


Why put them in with the unit they came with, when you can sell them out of your flat-rate book later? :thumbsup:


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> If they just sent a drier with for the techs to install. Too many driers would end up sitting as stock on the service trucks.


 
Any tech who does that would get canned. Time used to be bad refer techs would get demoted to the ranks of resi hvac but at least these former refer tards still used a filter drier on ac installs no matter how bad their skill set in refer service used to be.

Now, years later, the trade crosses lines that once firmly seperated one another and we got a whole generation of low caste techs and mediocre indendant operators with no accountability.

It makes work for the compatent techs and independants, but at the cost the cost of bursing an already tattered industry reputation.


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## beenthere

John Markl said:


> Why put them in with the unit they came with, when you can sell them out of your flat-rate book later? :thumbsup:


Unfortunately. Thats done/was done by more then one company.


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## nicktech

tempstar sends all their condensers with a field installable sweat LLD. there great. they recommend them to be installed closest to the evap.


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## RoBoTeq

nicktech said:


> tempstar sends all their condensers with a field installable sweat LLD. there great. they recommend them to be installed closest to the evap.


 Still? What brand of compressor is in them? What are the compressor warranties?


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## nicktech

tempstar carries a copeland compressor with 10 yr warranty


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## hvaclover

seems the standard right now.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> seems the standard right now.


 Not without an internally installed OEM filter/drier.


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## hvaclover

I call your attention to Nordynes' ten year comp warranty. No requirement for an LLD on their R22 system.

Can't speak for their 410A systems but I am sure they probably do.

Even Lennox owned Aire Flo brand 410A system come with an LLD.


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## carmon

why would you put a liquid line drier near the evaporator coil,I have been in this trade for 30 years and have never on a/c work or refrigeration work put the drier near the evaporator,it just makes no sense to me. the manufactures must have a reason for it i suppose.


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## beenthere

Because they can hold more moisture when they are in a cooler ambient temp. Then they can when they are in a hot ambient area.

At the evap coil. Doesn't apply to units with the evap coil installed in a non conditioned attic.

A LLFD can release moisture back into the system when it gets hot. If it is holding near its rated capacity at 75°F. At 95°F, it would have more moisture then it can hold/retain. And will release it back into the system.

Same reason that you should cut out the old filter drier, instead of unbrazing it.


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## carmon

I can see that but how much moisture are in these driers, If you size the drier correcrtly it will never fill with moisture,I have never had any trouble with driers releasing moisture,i imagine it happens ,i guess I Have just got lucky :yes:


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## beenthere

carmon said:


> I can see that but how much moisture are in these driers, If you size the drier correcrtly it will never fill with moisture,I have never had any trouble with driers releasing moisture,i imagine it happens ,i guess I Have just got lucky :yes:


If you have to ask how much moisture is in these driers. Then how can you size one correctly?

Not meant to be insulting, or offensive toward you in any way.

A filter drier rated to hold 400 drops of moisture. Can hold 20 grams. Its takes 28.35 grams to equal 1 ounce. So the above filter could hold .7 ounce(taking weight, not volume).

There are 16 ounces to the pound. A gallon of water weighs 8.33 pounds at 50°F. So that filter drier can only hold .0052 gallon of water/moisture. 

The next factor that varies a filter driers ability to hold moisture. Is the refrigerants ability to absorb moisture(the moisture solubility of the refrigerant). As the refrigerant warms up, its solubility increases, and it will pull moisute from the filter.

Lucky, maybe, maybe not.

You may have seen the effects more often then you think, or know of.

That unexplained sticking/stuck piston at the evap. That clogged cap tube on heil/ICP heat pumps(and some other brands).
The clogged filter drier. Sticking rods in a TXV. A shorted compressor(even though there is no acid). the system with non condensables(some of that non condenseable is water vapor,).

There's more.


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## carmon

no problem I did not take it as insulting. I have never in my life many plug with contaminents ,if there is that much moisture present i will change out the drier more than once to take care of of it. I know now adays its getting worse with the new oils absorbing moisture,I just always install the drier at the condensing unit a/c or refrigeration


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Because they can hold more moisture when they are in a cooler ambient temp. Then they can when they are in a hot ambient area.
> 
> At the evap coil. Doesn't apply to units with the evap coil installed in a non conditioned attic.
> 
> A LLFD can release moisture back into the system when it gets hot. If it is holding near its rated capacity at 75°F. At 95°F, it would have more moisture then it can hold/retain. And will release it back into the system.
> 
> Same reason that you should cut out the old filter drier, instead of unbrazing it.


That applied to driers that had ABSORBENT desiccant. Driers using ADSORBER types of desiccant will not give up moisture.


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## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> That applied to driers that had ABSORBENT desiccant. Driers using ADSORBER types of desiccant will not give up moisture.


Post a link to the specs that say that.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> I call your attention to Nordynes' ten year comp warranty. No requirement for an LLD on their R22 system.
> 
> Can't speak for their 410A systems but I am sure they probably do.
> 
> Even Lennox owned Aire Flo brand 410A system come with an LLD.


Are you saying that Nordyne does not require a LLD at all on the R22 system? Or are you saying that the LLD is factory installed in the outdoor unit?

When you say the Aire Flo units come with a LLD, are you saying there is a LLD factory installed in the units, or that there is a LLD laying in the box that needs to be installed in the liquid line?


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## RoBoTeq

beenthere said:


> If you have to ask how much moisture is in these driers. Then how can you size one correctly?
> 
> Not meant to be insulting, or offensive toward you in any way.
> 
> A filter drier rated to hold 400 drops of moisture. Can hold 20 grams. Its takes 28.35 grams to equal 1 ounce. So the above filter could hold .7 ounce(taking weight, not volume).
> 
> There are 16 ounces to the pound. A gallon of water weighs 8.33 pounds at 50°F. So that filter drier can only hold .0052 gallon of water/moisture.
> 
> The next factor that varies a filter driers ability to hold moisture. Is the refrigerants ability to absorb moisture(the moisture solubility of the refrigerant). As the refrigerant warms up, its solubility increases, and it will pull moisute from the filter.
> 
> Lucky, maybe, maybe not.
> 
> You may have seen the effects more often then you think, or know of.
> 
> That unexplained sticking/stuck piston at the evap. That clogged cap tube on heil/ICP heat pumps(and some other brands).
> The clogged filter drier. Sticking rods in a TXV. A shorted compressor(even though there is no acid). the system with non condensables(some of that non condenseable is water vapor,).
> 
> There's more.


Darned good post! There are so many things that go on that too many techs don't consider because the systems keep on running, even if it is not under the best of conditions.


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Post a link to the specs that say that.


Sorry Been. You are going to have to do a little research. I attended a seminar by Sporlan and learned a hell of a lot about driers and other flow devices that most techs are very sketchy on.


Good hunting.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Are you saying that Nordyne does not require a LLD at all on the R22 system? Or are you saying that the LLD is factory installed in the outdoor unit?
> 
> When you say the Aire Flo units come with a LLD, are you saying there is a LLD factory installed in the units, or that there is a LLD laying in the box that needs to be installed in the liquid line?


On Nordyne R22 systems they do not SPECIFY a drier must be installed to qualify the ten year warranty.

Aire Flo 410A units ship LLDs loose and they must be field installed.


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## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> Sorry Been. You are going to have to do a little research. I attended a seminar by Sporlan and learned a hell of a lot about driers and other flow devices that most techs are very sketchy on.
> 
> 
> Good hunting.



LOL...

So are you using those driers.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Sorry Been. You are going to have to do a little research. I attended a seminar by Sporlan and learned a hell of a lot about driers and other flow devices that most techs are very sketchy on.
> 
> 
> Good hunting.


Oh hoooo! More of that "someone told me" stuff, eh?:yes:


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> Oh hoooo! More of that "someone told me" stuff, eh?:yes:



Gime a break, Robin? It's not like they hand out Cliff notes at the end of a seminar.

I have my notes I took during the seminar. 

But I did find it on the web. So, happy hunting:yes:


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## beenthere

Sporlan doesn't use adsorbers in their filter driers.


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> Sporlan doesn't use adsorbers in their filter driers.



You ain't diggin' very deep Been. Sporlan, Alco, they all have it.


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## beenthere

hvaclover said:


> You ain't diggin' very deep Been. Sporlan, Alco, they all have it.



I'm not digging at all.

If you know they make them. Post a link to that model liquid line/suction line filter drier. Or post the model number of the drier.


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## hvaclover

beenthere said:


> I'm not digging at all.
> 
> If you know they make them. Post a link to that model liquid line/suction line filter drier. Or post the model number of the drier.


I stopped doing other folks leg work a long time ago.

You're welcome to believe or not.

I got nothing to gain either way.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> I stopped doing other folks leg work a long time ago.
> 
> You're welcome to believe or not.
> 
> I got nothing to gain either way.


I came up with nothing either. Now it is just a matter of my time being wasted by an unsupported claim of someone else. What is to gain is integrity of your word.


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## beenthere

Then I stand by my post. Unbrazing a filter drier will cause it to release moisture.


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## hvaclover

good for you guys!

BTW i never endorsed reusing old filter driers.


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## hvaclover

Look guys:
I took a lot of heat for using bone dry CO2 as a braze purge.

I threw up all kinds of data supporting my claim from a spec sheet that called for flowing CO2 copper lines for medical use to statements from Harris brazing and a hundred other references. All the while i was proving my point I was taking shots of the worst kind.

Even when i proved beyond a shadow of a doubt I am still taking guff for using CO.


For that reason I am not going to go dig up anything on this issue and take the chance of a bunch of yahoos giving me grief even after i have proven my point.

So believe if you like. Your life won't change either way but I at least won't get my character smeared again.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Look guys:
> I took a lot of heat for using bone dry CO2 as a braze purge.
> 
> I threw up all kinds of data supporting my claim from a spec sheet that called for flowing CO2 copper lines for medical use to statements from Harris brazing and a hundred other references. All the while i was proving my point I was taking shots of the worst kind.
> 
> Even when i proved beyond a shadow of a doubt I am still taking guff for using CO.
> 
> 
> For that reason I am not going to go dig up anything on this issue and take the chance of a bunch of yahoos giving me grief even after i have proven my point.
> 
> So believe if you like. Your life won't change either way but I at least won't get my character smeared again.


But smearing each other is the only thing keeping this site going.


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## hvaclover

RoBoTeq said:


> But smearing each other is the only thing keeping this site going.



Robo u are one of the better people I know.
You could stomp on most fellas, but you don't.

RESPECT MY MAN I say to you.


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## RoBoTeq

hvaclover said:


> Robo u are one of the better people I know.
> You could stomp on most fellas, but you don't.
> 
> RESPECT MY MAN I say to you.


Thank you. I've been stomped on and I didn't like it.


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