# Yo, Mr Cardinal



## Saturatedpsi (Dec 1, 2011)

From that other thread I didn't want to hijack:




Cardinal said:


> I have learned over the years of using forums to not read too much into comments by others as often times a person can misinterpret the emotion or intent of the poster...


Yeah, it would appear I've taken some degree of exception to half your posts...no doubt an irritant for you. Apologies. 



On a more positive note, my compliments to you, or whoever wrote the article at HvacMarket.Com regarding the "Tune-Up" misnomer for equipment. Every time I suggest to an HO his heat pump has nothing to _*tune-up*_, I get the wide-eyed, baffled look like _*I'm*_ the misinformed, ill-trained and unknowledgeable service idiot, rather than the rip-off artists trying to sell them on the idea their equipment needs one. :stupid:


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## beenthere (May 30, 2009)

Saturatedpsi said:


> From that other thread I didn't want to hijack:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the coils of a heat pump never need cleaned?

While I call it a service check, others call it a PM, and others a tune up.

I have found lots of bad contactors, relays, weak capacitors, Condenser fan motors and indoor blower motors that were not working right.


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## Saturatedpsi (Dec 1, 2011)

beenthere said:


> So the coils of a heat pump never need cleaned?
> 
> While I call it a service check, others call it a PM, and others a tune up.
> 
> I have found lots of bad contactors, relays, weak capacitors, Condenser fan motors and indoor blower motors that were not working right.


My issue isn't with a need for, or value of periodic preventative maintenance. And I don't have any objections to calling it PM or "clean and check". But when you find something wrong, it doesn't need "tuning up", it needs corrective action. 

I just believe the TV ads for $49.95 tune-up's are misleading, implying something that in reality, isn't going to take place and oftentimes ending up being something that didn't need to take place. And I'm sure you've "beenthere" long enough to know what I'm talking about. :yes:


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## beenthere (May 30, 2009)

It like a car. have you ever taken it in for a tune up? You may have, but chances are, it wasn't tuned up. The manufacturer's specs fop a real tune up. Require so much be done, that the verge tune up would cost in excess of 600 bucks.

What you get, is known as a Preventive maintenance tune up. Obvious worn things are changed. But no real enhancement to operation.

Blogs such as Cardinal's mislead many people, into thinking that there is nothing to check.


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## Saturatedpsi (Dec 1, 2011)

beenthere said:


> It like a car. have you ever taken it in for a tune up? You may have, but chances are, it wasn't tuned up. The manufacturer's specs fop a real tune up. Require so much be done, that the verge tune up would cost in excess of 600 bucks.


Semantics notwithstanding, for me it's simply about truth in advertising. So long as the HO fully understands what he's going to receive for the $49.95, you can call it whatever you like. :thumbsup:


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## beenthere (May 30, 2009)

Saturatedpsi said:


> Semantics notwithstanding, for me it's simply about truth in advertising. So long as the HO fully understands what he's going to receive for the $49.95, you can call it whatever you like. :thumbsup:


LOL... I charge more then twice that to check an A/C.


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## Stamas (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm more like 3X that. And we often refer to it as a Tune Up. My bad. But it reads well with the customers, something they understand more.


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## user2561 (Dec 29, 2011)

*Really??*



> It like a car. have you ever taken it in for a tune up? You may have, but chances are, it wasn't tuned up. The manufacturer's specs fop a real tune up. Require so much be done, that the verge tune up would cost in excess of 600 bucks.
> 
> What you get, is known as a Preventive maintenance tune up. Obvious worn things are changed. But no real enhancement to operation.
> 
> ...


Not to burst your bubble but Preventative Maintenance and a TUNE UP are entirely different. Look up Tune up in the dictionary. 

Fact is Tune-Up refers to a need to tweek or adjust something. There is nothing to Tweek or adjust on a heat pump, ptac unit, etc. The only equipment that requires any amount of adjustments will be oil furnaces, and some gas furnaces that need gas pressure adjustments or on some more commercial equipment, air adjustments...such as Lochinvar boilers. (Keep in mind we are talking the residential side of things.....residential equipment)

Tell the viewers here, what you tune up on a heat pump or gas furnace? (leave out the gas pressure...as this should be adjusted on startup and should not need adjusted again..only periodically checked to ensure nothing has altered incoming supply pressure)

You mention cleaning coils, contactors, relays, etc.....You do not adjust them...you simply clean them or replace them. The basics, such as coil cleaning, can be performed by the homeowner.

You can take any two homes, one with the gimmick of "TUNE UP" contracts and the other without. Our research has shown that almost 7-8 out of 10 times the one without the contract service has had less problems. This is not b/c preventative maintenance is bad but rather companies that are selling the infamous "Tune-Up" are almost always gimmicky and send out "techs" that hook gauges up on every visit and fiddle with everything under the sun..when most times there is nothing wrong. That is another thing....techs do not need to hook gauges up every time they show to the "scene". With understanding of how refrigeration works, temperatures, approaches, etc a tech should never have to hook up gauges with exception to startup or when after review of temps and other principle readings it becomes clear there is a refrigeration cycle problem.

The simple truth of the matter is that companies use the "Tune-Up" phrasing b/c it is great for marketing and sells to the customer well. Instead of HVAC providers acting responsibly on behalf of the customer, many take advantage of the customer's lack of HVAC understanding. Making a profit is great and fine but as HVAC providers the main goal should be a well informed and happy customer. What kind of reputation would the HVAC trade have if all HVAC providers operated with real integrity and helped the customer understand how their sytems worked rather than keeping them in the dark. What we have found is that many HVAC providers like the fact that their customers don't understand their systems b/c it is easier to sell products/services that are not needed. In addition, if the customer does not understand their system then they won't know if the "just out of training" tech screws something up. There is very little truth in a "Tune-Up".

As far as coils needing to be cleaned and filters changed..Where's the adjustment in that?? It is called service or preventative maintenance. Your not working on a 1970 Chevy that needs a timing adjustment or points replaced.



> It like a car. have you ever taken it in for a tune up? You may have, but chances are, it wasn't tuned up


Your home's HVAC system is not a car or anything like it. By the way newer cars, and for some time, have not needed tune-ups. Cars for some time have required service. What's the difference.....again tune-ups mean there is a need for regular adjustments...this is not the case anymore. You take your car in to get fuel injectors cleaned...not adjusted.

HVAC has been overtaken by those who will utilize almost anything to sell a product or service to the customer. My years in the trade and the exposure I have had to the "insiders only" part of the market have revealed many truths about the current state of HVAC. Smaller companies simply mimick, many times, what works for the larger companies.



> Blogs such as Cardinal's mislead many people, into thinking that there is nothing to check.


The blogs are not mis-leading...no where in the blog does it state that no care is needed. It does however expose those who lie, cheat, and steal with false advertising to the customer base. HVAC is a great trade and while we are not particularly loved by other players in the trade...our customers do love us. We make no exceptions on telling it like it is and sometimes we step on the toes of others and that is fine if they placed their foot there intentionally.
CAS stands by all information within the blogs published under our name, no matter the member of CAS authored it as it must be approved by the higher up first. CAS is a contributing memeber of the HVACmarket.com Blog.


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## Doc Holliday (Jul 10, 2011)

*BEENTHERE* > cardinal

and don't you forget it, sonny.


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## Doc Holliday (Jul 10, 2011)

And yes, your blog is misleading and it is not worth it's weight in refrigerant from a compressor burn out. That's why it's a blog and not a published article.

Opinios are like, well, you know. Nice thought but ill informed.


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## user2561 (Dec 29, 2011)

> And yes, your blog is misleading and it is not worth it's weight in refrigerant from a compressor burn out. That's why it's a blog and not a published article.
> 
> Opinios are like, well, you know. Nice thought but ill informed.


Just because CAS has a published blog somewhere please do not automatically assume I was the publisher. To further expound on this, employees of CAS are given authorization to post articles and join under the CAS or Cardinal name providing they meet the requirements...And yes, I have posted blogs for CAS at more than one location but unless I verify it don't assume it. That being said I will gladly defend any info put out there, anywhere by CAS.

Not actually knowing you, Doc or Beenthere...it would not be fair for me to make judgments or assumptions about your character..so I won't. Fact is many times on these forums folks can take things the wrong way and say things that are very unbecoming...I simply do not participate in that. You and I sitting down at the local breakfast hotspot and discussing certain topics is a whole lot different than debating or discussing on a forum.

But the truth is not an opinion...it is a fact..This is also not an opinion. My statements here on HVACsite.com, and any blogs or articles found around the internet or news which have been authorized by CAS to be published are not made up or imagined. 

I am not in a popularity contest and that's what I love about the company I work for...CAS is literally the only company I have worked for that does not dazzle the customer base with gimmicky sales. 

Feel free to pick anything out of the forum post here and put some meat behind the accusation that it is misleading. As for any blogs found elsewhere..well, that is up to whoever actually authored it to defend it but I would be glad to respond with my defense on anything found.


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## Stamas (Jan 2, 2012)

Perhaps look at one of the advert at the top of the page. It advertises "$79" tune-ups. Or at that's what showed at my end. Probably targeted because it's a local co. here.
I think there's a bit of hair splitting going on. Like I said, it's used mainly because it is a more comfortable term for the consumer to get a handle on although the actual work is not exactly the definition as you define it. Just a convenient target maybe.
Taking broad pot shot's does the opposite of what I hope your trying to do, improve our trade. It paints us ALL in a corner and puts a dunce cap on the trade.


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## Doc Holliday (Jul 10, 2011)

Tune-up is nothing more than a marketing term/tool but it's misleading unless you are going to go and clean the coils and then sc/sh charge the system all you are really getting is a tech to your front door, possibly hoOking up his gauges, telling you you have issues and then telling the home owner what it's really going to cost.

Pretty much a service call fee without there being any actual work performed.

The work needed to be performed to do an actual tune up, again the verifying and/or coils being cleaned for proper air flow and coincidingly charging of a system so cost of refrigerant per pound if system needs it plus time/labor and material, is easily five times that of a regular service call fee.

Not sure how one can advertise "tune-up", not for $79.99. $399.00 would be more appropriate and even then it's low balling.


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